Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:14:53 -0400
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
From: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
Subject: [HUMNET-L] Processed table sugar

I recently wrote an article on Ruby-throats and feeding them for our
neighborhood association newsletter. I received an email from one of my
neighbors questioning the use of table sugar. She feels it is a poison and
suggested I read Sugar Blues.

I responded that h'bird and human physiology are not at all comparable,
that nectar does consist of sucrose, that h'birds also rely on arthropods for
their complete diet, not to use honey, etc, etc. ( Some of this was, of course,
in the article).

The following is what I received in reply:

"Hi Ann,

Thanks for the information. I still wonder, though, if feeding processed
sugar to hummingbirds is a good thing. Having been a 100% raw organic
foodist for over a year and having cured myself of an adenoma on such a diet, I
know first hand the healing power of whole foods. People today take hoards of
vitamin supplements because their health care practitioners tell them they
are vitamin deficient, which I feel sure is true in most cases, as unhealthy as
the earth is today. Before becoming a raw foodist, I took tons of vitamins
and minerals also, and still had health problems. It was only after I
changed my diet in this way that I realized I no longer needed these supplements.

Processed sugar is cooked. After the heating process, the sucrose crystals
are then rinsed. In the rinsing, all the minerals are rinsed away. You
may say the hummingbird only needs sucrose, but I would be willing to bet that
they also need the minerals that are in the nectar as well. We need
minerals for a healthy nervous system. The hummingbird certainly has a very
sophisticated and sensitive nervous system, and I feel sure that processed
sugar is lacking in some essential minerals necessary for their good
health. It most certainly decreases greatly the immune function in humans.

For an expert to say that hummingbirds only need sucrose is to me like the
M.D. who would say that the only improvement we need to make in our diet is
to add vitamin supplements.

I know very little about hummingbirds, but I would be willing to bet that
the hummingbird species in the long run would suffer greatly from eating
processed sugar. There is so much that medical science does not know about the
health of our planet and her children. We have thought for tens or hundreds of
thousands of years that cooked food is a healthy thing, and are now finding
out that it isn't as good a thing as we once thought.

I would love to know more info about the hummingbird. I find it to be a
fascinating bird.

I will visit the websites and would love to receive any additional info
from you on the subject."

I told her this was way out of my area of expertise, and I would turn it
over to the experts.

Ann McAllister
Pine Lake, GA (Atlanta)

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Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 13:27:19 -0500
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
From: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] Processed table sugar

>If
>raw sugar is nutritionally better, would it not be a good thing to use
>instead of processed sugar

All sugar is processed. The most significant difference between white and
raw is the color. It's all sucrose, the same as the nectar in nearly all
plants used by hummingbirds. Given a choice, I would use white on a
presumption of greater purity and fewer contaminants. The birds don't
care how much it costs, or whether the packaging is recycled paper
printed with soy ink.

No hummingbird gets all its food from feeders--they can't survive on
carbohydrates alone, and feeders are merely a supplement to flower
nectar. They get the nutrients they need from the arthropods they catch,
plus possibly a few useful minerals from wildflower nectar. Sugar is the
fuel for chasing bugs, not an end but a means.

We don't need to worry about fulfilling the dietary requirements of wild
hummingbirds, only about poisoning them by adding untested substances to
our feeder syrup. White sugar is the only syrup that has been tested
extensively for safety as a hummingbird food supplement, as far as I
know. (In comparison tests, most hummingbirds seem to prefer cane sugar
over beet sugar, presumably because the latter contains distasteful
impurities.)

Hummingbird metabolism is radically different from that of humans (or of
other birds, for that matter). It's a mistake to assume otherwise, and a
compounded mistake to apply unproven theories of human metabolism to
hummingbirds. It's unethical to perform uncontrolled experiments on wild
animal populations.

Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, USA
============================

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:53:02 -0400
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
From: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] Processed table sugar

I'm with Lanny on the processed vs "raw" sugar differences...having worked
for a sugar company (Great Western/Godchaux) and been instructed in both
the refining process and the regulations governing it, I learned early on that
the FDA is very particular about the contaminants brought into this country
in cane sugar "raws", the partially processed material from which our
packaged sugar is made (ignoring beets here). Refiners such as Domino must
remove (an FDA requirement) these contaminants through cooking and
filtering with the result being the white granules you purchase at the store. "Brown"
sugars (including "Sugar In The Raw") have the coloring added to them in
the form of molasses AFTER the primary refining process. So, in truth, there
really are no truly "raw" sugars from extracted, crystallized cane juice
that have not been refined before appearing on the grocery store
shelf...sorry to burst anyone's bubble!

Ann Adams
Pittsford, NY

On 8/10/02 12:31, joyful1218 joyful1218@COX.NET wrote:

>If
>raw sugar is nutritionally better, would it not be a good thing to use
>instead of processed sugar

Lanny Chamber's response:

"All sugar is processed. The most significant difference between white and
raw is the color. It's all sucrose, the same as the nectar in nearly all
plants used by hummingbirds. Given a choice, I would use white on a
presumption of greater purity and fewer contaminants. "

===============================

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:26:13 -0500
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
From: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] Processed table sugar

On 8/8/02 23:01, joanne walker raymondmom@MSN.COM wrote:

>Ok - are there any botanists who have analyzed nectar? Now I'm wondering
>if I should plan my garden according to the nutritional value of various
>plants.

While you're at it, enroll all your hummers in a tai chi class, get them
rolfed, cast their horoscopes, and convert them to the Church (sic) of
Scientology. [Aroma therapy for birds with almost no olfactory sense is a
little too crass, even for me.]

The one thing to remember about health food nuts is that they are, above
all, nuts.

Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, USA
Humnet Rogues' Gallery: http://www.hummingbirds.net/rogues.html

=============================

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:26:09 -0400
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
From: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast <HUMNET-L@LISTSERV.LSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] Processed table sugar

On 8/10/02 12:31, joyful1218 joyful1218@COX.NET wrote:

>If
>raw sugar is nutritionally better, would it not be a good thing to use
>instead of processed sugar

I feel compelled to comment on this "health-food" approach to feeding
hummers.  I think the incorrect assumption is that we are doing some kind
of dietary favor for the hummers when we feed them in summer.  We feed them
because we enjoy their presence in our lives.  That is a great reason to do
so.  Beyond that, keep your feeders clean and don't make it complicated.

Unless we get reckless and poison them in some fashion, we are essentially
a non-factor in their eating regime.  This time of year, Rujby-throated
hummingbirds are never feeder-dependent, and most that you see in your yard
today are gone like a rocket by tomorrow.  My good friend Lanny Chambers is
pretty much right on the money with his comments, in my opinion.

If you are into the health food scene, that is great.  This is not an
attack on those that enjoy that lifestyle.  The trick is to separate what
you want for yourself and what sugar is found in the flowers that hummers
seem to prefer.  That sugar form is primarily sucrose, pretty much the same
as our plain old table sugar.

Hey guys, enjoy the day and feel good knowing that we are not the savior of
the hummingbirds with our sugar water feeders.  If you want to protect the
hummingbirds, protect and preserve their rapidly disappearing habitat.

Respectfully
Bob Sargent

====================