Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:08:55
-0700
From: ron <ron@NVWETLANDS.COM>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in
the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] raised beds for wet gardens
Van, Paul, raised bed enthusiasts:
I don't have much
experience trying to grow
plants that are really tough to grow in Louisiana - this category
includes
lots of dry mountain plants that either don't like the heavy soil,
don't like
the humidity in the air, don't like the cold winter weather, or
all
three. I
have, however grown lots of not-too-hard-to-grow plants such
as the more
typical (among HUMNETters) salvias in Louisiana. I found
that raised beds
constructed from the native clay / silt soils plus lots of organic
matter work
great. The clay content of the soil holds moisture and nutrients
well, and in
addition it makes the soil more solid than sandy beds, so plants
aren't as
likely to topple in the wind. Diggin the upper couple of feet
of
soil adds
volume and creates a raised be dwithout adding soil, and
raising the bed this
way seems to improve drainage enough, even without adding
sand.
I have also had experience with
a number of raised beds
constructed by other
landscapers, who in Baton Rouge love to recommend the
importation of a mixture
of sand and bark pieces which they call soil. I cynically think
that many of
them do this simply because they make money on the imported
"soil" although
maybe some of them really think its a good idea (they're wrong
in most cases -
read on) This soil is often added on top of the native clayey
soil
without any
mixing with the lower soil, resulting in a fast-draining sandy
soil atop a
slow draining clay. The plants placed in the very rapidly
draining imported
soil need frequent watering because the raised beds dry really
fast. Many
times the plants that are put there by the landscaper aren't even
plants that
need especially good drainage, and they would have been fine
in the native
soil. The added water sinks quickly through the raised bed and
soaks the soil
below. It often happens that the lower soil remains saturated
all
the time,
and thus roots of the plants in the raised beds cannot grow into
the lower
soil due to anoxic conditions. I have seen anoxic, gleyed clay
soils
immediately underneath sandy cover soil that was added, while
in uncovered
areas the native soil appears much less anoxic. So the plants
remain rooted
only in the raised bed and the lower soil remains unused by
plants, and
frequent water is always needed. This is not a good situation
nor one that
produces very healthy plants in the long run. It does roduce
healthy plants
for a month or two, after which the landscaper has been paid
and the owner is
in charge of the plants, and any failure to thrive is blamed on
the owner of
the garden. It would be much better to mix the added soil into
the native soil
producing a soil with more uniform properties, or in many
cases simply add
some organic matter to the native soil and plant in it. It may
be
good to
raise beds to grow really finicky dry-climate plants in wet,
humid Louisiana,
and I'm sure that properly constructed raised beds, which
encourage root
growth into the underlying soil, are great. However, simply
adding soil to
make a raised bed is not, in my experience, always a panacea,
and drainage
problems, even in south Louisiana, are not as common as
landscapers would like
us to believe.
Not to diss anyones garden, but
Van's yard may be the
exception to my last
statement.
Ron Rovansek
Reno, NV - where hummers are scarce right now in my yard.
==============================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:37:16
-0600
From: MiriamLDavey <athena@INTERSURF.COM>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] new garden bed prep
Humnet, Howard:
Man, this was long.
Soil is a deceptively complex
subject. It's so underrated and
under-appreciated, isn't it?
Soil-less beds, turtle-back construction
or not, represent an easily
obtainable and commercially available starting place. A short-cut.
Something one can do if pressed for time, and months or years'
worth of
grabbing lawn bags of leaves off the street is not practical.
Turtle-back beds look very neat
and controlled, which is important to a lot
of people, at least at the beginning before people like us have
influenced
them. And they can represent solutions to very poor gardening
conditions.
Local conditions vary a lot,
and whether turtlebacks and/or soil-less mixes
work for humgardens depends not only on locale, but on what materials
and
techniques are used, and the degree of gardening exerience/training
of the
gardener. And all that varies a lot from locale to locale. And
gardener
to gardener.
"Soil-less mix" just
means the material simply has no dirt, even though it
is incomplete without dirt or its equivalent. What I call dirt
consists
mostly of tiny particles of sand, silt, clay, or rock. It has
little or no
organic material (humus), which is the black-colored material
created when
quantities of leaves and other dead things are well-rotten.
Places where black, rich humus
is a large part of native dirt, that is,
more than just the top inch or two or less, are not common. Those
are
usually heavily cultivated areas, and they generally don't sell
their dirt.
The main value of dirt in planting
beds is providing trace minerals,
altering ph, and maybe adding some microorganisms, or at least
altering the
mix so microorganisms can grow.
The problem that I, and area
green industry people have had with locally
available dirt, or native soil, is that despite its disappointing
near-absence of humus, it frequently has plenty of weed seeds.
Here, it
also has corms of Bermuda grass and purple and yellow nutsedge,
which are
extremely difficult to get rid of, and a major problem if they
occur in a
planting. It also has poor texture---packing easily, reducing
oxygen
levels if the dirt component of a mix is too high. Some places,
clay
content is a problem.
For improved texture and moisture
retention in soil-less mixes, many
contractors use vermiculite, a very cheap, mined substance. I
find once I
finish amending the soilless mix, most humplants don't need it
or perlite.
Builder's sand is a better humgardening component.
The largest component of a "soil-less
mix" is organic material--"compost".
A variety of compost material is now commercially available around
here,
including manure, which you mentioned, and peat moss, which I
do not like.
Most all commercially available composts are fresher than I would
prefer.
Ground, "rotten" pine bark is the best locally available
compost material I
have used.
You mentioned manure. About animal-derived
organic composts---I do not
consider most horse and cow manure acceptable gardening material,
both
because of weed and grass seeds, and extremely undesirable, repulsive,
and
probably hazardous extra material derived from common stable and
feedlot
practices. Sifting is possible, but expensive, and usually not
thorough.
Rabbit, chicken, cricket, and
worm manure (casings) are much better and
cleaner, but so expensive as to be prohibitive except on an extremely
small
scale. Slaughterhouse organic products are effective, but in my
opinion
also rather repulsive, especially when wet, and may possibly impart
disease
to handlers.
Without going into detail on
additional individual problems with other
commercially available composts and organic additives, though,
I have
found that none of that material is as good, as cheap, as problem-free,
personally satisfying, and politically correct as leaf humus.
Leaf mulch humus is just not
very commercially available, and not as quick
as starting with a soil-less mix. If your area has a community
mulch pile,
however, you might get quantities of leaf mold humus or similar
material.
So, the real value of commercially
available, well-chosen soil-less mixes
is that they can be a good place to start. Of course, that point
continues
to be lost on many landscape contractors who simply dump the rich-lookin
mix, stick in bedding plants, and wonder why they all go yellow
& die. To
avoid plant anemia, I try to work in existing soil, or to find
a small
quantity of relatively pure dirt & add to a soil-less mix
turtleback bed.
On bed construction--raised beds
are nearly always better than beds at
existing soil level, regardless of type of soil used in the mix.
For heavy
clay and heavy clay soil, extremely poor drainage conditions,
or soil that
used to be a roadbed, making a turtle-back that essentially just
sits on
top is wonderful.
Oh yeah, and I strongly disagree
on your bed-bordering comments. I have
found proper trenching out superior to any barrier method for
keeping out
all lawngrasses I am familiar with. And it looks better, too.
Shortcuts
are possible, but I reccomend starting with the trad9tional English
trench
and then seeing what can be left out. Make sure your trench is
the proper
construction----too narrow, wrong slant, bed too steep---all are
problems
defeating the purpose.
The only time I'd reccomend retaining
material is if the bed is part of a
cut-away hillside subject to erosion, or if the gardener is handicapped,
or
other special circumstances.
Visit some of the better public
gardens around the country before signing
off on trenching or before converting your garden into a Square
Foot
monstrosity.
Who would ever think soil could
be a controversial subject? And we didn't
even talk about native plant communities, micorrhizia (oops, spelling),
and
their relationships with soil, and the effect of human land-altering
practices!
BTW Ron, one reason your garden
at SSCommunity did so well with just dumped
leaves and tilling was because the native soil was loose and silty,
part of
an old cotton farm called Southdowns Plantation. I have the same
kind of
soil here--it was once part of the McInnis Plantation.
Ok, off the soapbox and back to work.
MiriamLDavey
BatonRougeLA
USDA Hardiness Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 28
=================================
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:28:15
-0600
From: MiriamLDavey <athena@INTERSURF.COM>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] planting for hummers at my new home
>I am getting so many helpful
replies from all of you about rehabilitating my
>yard for hummers and other birds. Thanks!!!
>
>Miriam, what are turtle backs?
>
>Ann
Ann,
Around here "turtleback"
beds are raised, and made entirely or nearly
entirely from soil-less material brought into the landscape. They
are
mounding, roughly in the shape of a turtle's shell. They are typically
as
much as a couple of feet above the level of the surrounding soil,
are
highest in the middle, and slope down to soil level on the sides.
They can be as narrow as 8 ft,
and as wide as maybe 15 ft, and as long as
one wants. Other dimensions don't work as well. At their edges
they are
trenched in the English style, which I prefer, although many landscape
designers/contractors/gardeners for some reasons (bad ones to
be sure) like
to use a variety of retaining material as edging.
Improved drainage is the main
reason they are used here, and better soil
texture. The materials used are those that are available commercially,
in
quantity. They are fast---no waiting for hundreds of bags of leaves
to
decompose. No turning. They are also relatively weed-free for
the first
few years, unless riversilt is a component.
And of course, the main reason
they are so extensively used now is that
they are locally in fashion. In the last ten or fifteen years,
they've
become all the rage for "color" gardens---combinations
of perennials,
annuals, and tropicals.
The turtleback beds I've made
have all incorporated at least some of the
existing soil, because soil contains trace minerals that are hard
to add to
soil-less bed mixes.
Around here the most popular
main ingredient for turtleback beds is ground
pine bark, but materials vary depending on where one lives. Builder's
sand
is also a major component, and good for texture.
None of it is nearly as good
as garden soil you can make with lots of leaf
mold. It's also hard to find well-rotted ground pine bark, or
any other
material. Fresher material ties up nigtrogen, making it unavailable
in
proper quantity for plant roots.
If you find the need to use turtlebacks,
plenty of leaf mold can always be
worked in every year, along with organic fertilizers like cottonseed
meal,
timed-release fertilizers like Osmocote, and trace minerals like
Epsom Salt
and Ironite, and material to alter ph, if needed.
MiriamLDavey
BatonRougeLA
USDA Hardiness Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 28
==================================
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 11:04:49 -0600
From: Howard Williams <lesho@EARTHLINK.NET>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] new garden bed preparation
Humnet,
On the subject of creating raised or "turtleback"
beds I would highly
recommend avoiding soil less mixtures. It seems rather pointless
to
create a plant friendly area with lifeless substances. A mixture
of
compost, topsoil, shredded leaves, sand (optional depending on
need),
composted manure (optional depending on need) is a much better
combination of 'live' elements. Of course, before you create a
raised
bed decide if you really need one. Raised beds -- as Miriam Davey
points
out in a previous post -- are often created in areas where drainage
is
poor. Plants are are often concentrated at the apex of the bed
which
essentially positions most of the roots -- and the crown of the
plant --
above the drainage poor soil substrate. Trenching around your
beds is
fine IF you don't have grass or weeds (like the evil creeping
bentgrass!!) that spread by runners or underground stolons. I
use a
barrier around my beds which 'helps' keep bentgrass out. Trenching
wouldn't work for me unless I maintained a ditch two feet deep.
If
drainage is not a concern in your garden, and hence the need for
raised
beds, adding organic matter to the existing soil -- either tilled
in or
simply placed on top of the soil -- is never a bad idea. Organic
matter
adds nutrients and moisture holding capability to poor fast draining
sandy soils and breaks up dense clay (gumbo) soils. You'll also
increase
beneficial soil microbes and encourage earthworms. If you have
earthworms in your garden you're doing something right. These
slimy
critters add nutrients through their castings, break down organic
matter, and aerate the soil -- all very important to your plants.
If
you feel the need to add minerals to your garden beds consider
the
addition of rock powders. The two most commonly used are greensand
and
lava sand. Both provide slow release of many essential minerals
as wellas adding tilth to the soil. Soft rock phosphate is another
good
addition which helps blooming plants really shine (which all
humgardeners are after). A good site describing rock powders
<http://www.dirtdoctor.com>. Some of you may disagree with
this, but
avoid using peat moss as a soil additive. Compost is a much better
choice -- it adds nutrients while peat moss does not (there are
many
other reasons why compost is the best soil additive. The web is
filled
with compost info).
Some folks feel the need to have their
soil analyzed for nutrient
deficiencies and know the ph. If you add appropriate amounts of
organic
matter to your soil or raised beds you'll mostly end up with good
nutrient levels and and relatively neutral ph -- unless you're
starting
out with extreme soil conditions in the first place. Most plants
that
require some acidity or some alkalinity will do just fine in neutral
ph
soils. But if your native soil lands on the alkaline end of the
ph scale
and you've fallen in love with acid soil loving plants (and vice
versa)
you got some work on your hands. Too much work in my opinion.
The best
thing to do is grow hummer plants that are at least somewhat suited
for
your native soil type i.e., moisture retention, ph, nutrient level,
etc.
Of course none of us can resist some of those pain in the neck
exotics
<grin>. Basically, if you prepare your soil properly your
gardening --
and hummingbird watching -- will be a lot more enjoyable.
Ok, I'm off my soapbox now. There's a wealth
of info on garden
preparation on the web and in books -- some of which will agree
with
what I've written above, some of which will directly contradict.
Your
native soil conditions will determine how much amending -- and
of what
type -- you'll have to do.
Happy humgardening and Happy New Year,
Howard Williams
Dallas, Texas
==================================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:32:49 -0600
From: Howard Williams <lesho@EARTHLINK.NET>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] down in the dirt
This is a bit long, too. A warning to those who find soil conversation
boring -- even though your hummingbird gardens may benefit...
> Soil is a deceptively complex subject. It's so underrated
and
> under-appreciated, isn't it?
>
Boy is that the truth. It seems like an
unnecessary subject to even
think about but so many gardening failures are directly the result
of
concentrating only what's above ground level, i.e., the plants.
But
'what lies beneath' is the foundation of success, as it were.
Talk about
soil too much and you become a 'dirt nerd'. That's ok, I've been
called
worse. Hmm, that's somewhat troubling...
> Turtle-back beds look very neat and
controlled, which is important to a lot
> of people, at least at the beginning before people like us
have influenced
> them. And they can represent solutions to very poor gardening
conditions.
>I didn't mean to disparage raised beds -- I use them myself.
It's the
"soil-less mix" I'm not a fan of. However I think the
stuff I'm thinking
of is different form what you describe. The "soil-less mix"
I've come
across consists primarily of screened peat moss, perlite, and
vermiculte
and is used as a sterile seed starting medium. In another part
of your
post you describe soil-less mix as containing "compost"
as the main
ingredient. Well, that's a very good thing as long as it's the
real deal
-- not just fine wood pieces and other inert debris. There's a
company
here in Texas called Living Earth Technologies
<http://www.livingearth.net> that carries a variety of soil
mixes
available by the truck load and can be delivered. One of their
mixes is
described as follows --
> Mixed Soil with Compost
> Living Earth Mixed Soil with Compost is blended from our
finest materials
including Living Earth Compost, Enriched Topsoil,
> screened sand and growers grade Pine Bark Mulch. Mixed Soil
with Compost is our most popular soil mix and is excellent for
> preparing new raised planting beds or amending existing beds.
It has been
formulated for any outdoor planting requirement.
>
Now that's a good combination of 'live'
elements. By the way Miriam,
you're in Baton Rouge, correct? I drove through BR on my way back
to
Texas from Florida and noticed a company off of I-20 that looked
like
Living Earth Technologies. It may have been the same company mentioned
on this web site
<http://www.ci.baton-rouge.la.us/Dept/Recycle/nat_resources.htm>.
There
were concrete block retaining walls with what looked like soil,
compost
and mulch. Might be worth checking out. I'll bet there are companies
like this all over the place.
> Places where black, rich humus is
a large part of native dirt, that is,
> more than just the top inch or two or less, are not common.
Those are
> usually heavily cultivated areas, and they generally don't
sell their dirt.
>
The only places where rich humus occurs
naturally anymore is on forest
floors -- free from obsessive raking. And in gardens where gardeners
strive to mimic those conditions. I once read about a gardener
whose
only soil amending activity was to generously spread shredded
leaves all
over her garden at various times of the year. She didn't till
or amend
in any other way. In time, her soil resembled that of a rich forest
floor -- and her plants reaped the benefits. Which brings us to
the
importance of mulching which is as important as all this soil
talk.
> You mentioned manure. About animal-derived
organic composts---I do not
> consider most horse and cow manure acceptable gardening material,
both
> because of weed and grass seeds, and extremely undesirable,
repulsive, and> probably hazardous extra material derived from
common stable and feedlot
> practices. Sifting is possible, but expensive, and usually
not thorough.
>
I agree with this to some extent. If manure
from *healthy*, properly
cared for horses or cows is composted properly weed seeds will
be killed
in the heat generated by the composting process. Manure from sick
animals should NEVER be used especially on food plants destined
for
humans (and maybe hummingbirds too?). I stay away from these materials
because of the possible undesirable farming practices you mention.
I now
use pelletized alfalfa (horse feed?) as a compost starter. It's
often
referred to as 'green manure'. Uncomposted alfalfa should not
be used
directly in gardens because it can be too 'hot' nitrogen wise.
> Without going into detail on additional
individual problems with other
> commercially available composts and organic additives, though,
I have> found that none of that material is as good, as cheap,
as problem-free,
> personally satisfying, and politically correct as leaf humus.
>
> Leaf mulch humus is just not very commercially available,
and not as quick
> as starting with a soil-less mix. If your area has a community
mulch pile,
> however, you might get quantities of leaf mold humus or similar
material.
>
Yeah, this is on the money. I'm one of
those people dragging my
neighbor's bagged leaves into my backyard. I'm sure they think
I'm nuts.
But I think they're crazier for bagging this stuff for the landfill
in
the first place. Fortunately Dallas collects yard debris and composts
it
in giant tumblers. Then it's made available to the public. Finally
a
worthwhile city endeavor!!
> On bed construction--raised beds are
nearly always better than beds at> existing soil level, regardless
of type of soil used in the mix. For heavy
> clay and heavy clay soil, extremely poor drainage conditions,
or soil that
> used to be a roadbed, making a turtle-back that essentially
just sits on
> top is wonderful.
>
Eventually the soil that 'just sits on
top' becomes partially
incorporated to what it's sitting on -- thanks to earthworms.
They pull
organic matter into the soil where they ingest it and create castings
--
very good fertilizer. This process also helps loosen clay soils
and
makes them more friable. By the way, clay can be very fertile
-- it's
only problem is it's dense structure.
> Oh yeah, and I strongly disagree on
your bed-bordering comments. I have
> found proper trenching out superior to any barrier method
for keeping out
> all lawngrasses I am familiar with. And it looks better,
too. Shortcuts> are possible, but I reccomend starting with
the traditional English trench
> and then seeing what can be left out. Make sure your trench
is the proper
> construction----too narrow, wrong slant, bed too steep---all
are problems
> defeating the purpose.
>
Trenching even keeps out nutgrass? If so,
I'm definitely switching over.
How much maintainance is required to keep the trenches 'trenched'?
I
inherited some of my retaining material in my yard which includes
flagstone -- which I find very appealing. But I think I'll give
this
trench method a try. Thanks for the tip.
happy humgardening,
Howard Williams
Dallas, Texas
============================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:29:24 -0600
From: Howard Williams <lesho@EARTHLINK.NET>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] down in the dirt redux
Humnet,
My 'down in the dirt' post dropped two web sites I listed;
Living Earth Technologies: http://www.livingearth.net
and for Nature^Òs Best Organics
soil center in Baton Rouge:
http://www.ci.baton-rouge.la.us/Dept/Recycle/nat_resources.htm
Sorry for the omissions,
Howard Williams
Dallas, Texas
==============================================
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:42:38 -0600
From: Howard Williams <lesho@EARTHLINK.NET>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] chicken manure
Sharon wrote;
> Hi Miriam...My Uncle Richard in Mississippi
has a chicken farm and I often
> go and get the maure from there...It is a mixture as he has
to clean his
> floor after each time the chickens are picked up and before
he can fill the
> houses again...Its a contained atmosphere more like a green
house...Works
> pretty good when mixed with my dirt and grass or weed free...
Sharon,
Miriam may have a different take on this
but here's mine: Chicken manure
is one of the 'hottest' manures. This means it's high in nitrogen.
Too
much fresh chicken manure can burn plants. Even if it doesn't
burn them
it can cause excess growth 'green' growth. This can result in
plants
that have weak stems and are more suseptible to insect infestation.
In
general chicken manure should at least be dried out or ideally
composted
before added to your soil. Of course, if it comes from a cramped
chicken
prison avoid it on principle...
Howard Williams
Dallas, Texas
=========================================
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:01:21 -0600
From: Howard Williams <lesho@EARTHLINK.NET>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] new garden bed prep
Miriam, Vic, Mark, Humnet,
Pine needles are indeed higher in acid
which makes them a great mulch
for acid loving plants. They break down very slowly due to their
pitch
(pine sap) content. Pine needles are also somewhat 'interlocking'
and
therefore wind resistant -- another good mulch attribute. Most
large
leaves -- i.e., red oak leaves -- break down slowly. Live oak
leaves,
with there greater relative surface area, break down quicker.
But if
you shred any leaves they break down quicker still.
Howard Williams
Dallas, Texas
==============================================
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:32:41 EST
From: Ron Rovansek <Rrovansek@AOL.COM>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] new garden bed prep
One problem I have with pine needles, particularly
long ones, is that they
are hard to dig into the soil with a shovel. They are harder than
leaves to
cut with the shovel blade.
Ron Rovansek
Huntington Beach, CA
=================================================
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:25:35 -0600
From: Carol Guidry <carolg@BURNINGGOLD.COM>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] garden bed prep
ectly]
Humnet,
Here is my recommendation on composting.
I never used a "compost pile',
instead I always composted right on the site of the future bed.
The trick
seems to be to wet and turn the material frequently. The more
often you work
on it the quicker you get a nice looking product. As your stuff
begins to
decompose you can incorporate the soil underneath. Also most vegetable
matter, leaves, etc. are easily obtained from people who are not
composting.
This allows you to produce lots of really nice soil.
I also like to use the pine needles as mulch. These are often
discarded by
north shore homeowners on garbage day and can be had for the asking.
Good Luck,
C Guidry
==========================================
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:22:28 EST
From: Ron Rovansek <Rrovansek@AOL.COM>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] Compost
Before the compost thread completely dies out I have two comments.
1. I have always composted by simply piling
my compost fodder - kitchen waste
(vegetable only, no animal stuff, leaves, dead plants, manure,
etc. directly
onto a vacant garden bed. Every once in a while I turn it in to
the soil. This
saves the space needed for a compost pile and saves the work of
turning the pile and moving the compost from the pile to the garden.
If I dont have a
vacant bed, I simply use the space between plants.
2. I have used all sorts of "green
manures" such as lawn clippings and many
cover crops like alfalfa, winter peas, cow vetch, which have been
grown on the garden. I always dig them into the soil then immediately
plant either seeds or plants. I have never seen any indication
that they are 'burning' my plants or doing any harm at all. THe
main problem is that some of the plants may continue to grow,
but this doesn't bother me or my other, more desired plants.
Ron Rovansek
Huntington Beach, CA
=================================
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:22:27 -0600
From: Howard Williams <lesho@EARTHLINK.NET>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] Compost
Ron wrote;
> Before the compost thread completely
dies out I have two comments.
>
> 1. I have always composted by simply piling my compost fodder
- kitchen waste
> (vegetable only, no animal stuff, leaves, dead plants, manure,
etc. directly
> onto a vacant garden bed. Every once in a while I turn it
in to the soil. This
> saves the space needed for a compost pile and saves the work
of turning the
> pile and moving the compost from the pile to the garden.
If I dont have a
> vacant bed, I simply use the space between plants.
>
A book entitled 'Lasagna Gardening' came
out a year or so ago. The ad
that described the book pretty much gave the premise away. Basically
you
simply spread compost worthy materials on the ground in roughly
the
shape of the new bed you plan to make. You can layer the materials
--
hence the 'lasagna' reference -- and then cover the whole thing
with
leaves. You don't have to remove any turf. But you can make the
first
layer cardboard or layers of newspaper to make sure you smother
the
grass (this may or may not be necessary). If you do this in the
fall you
will have a nice compost enriched garden bed ready by spring.
You dig
down through the decaying newspaper of cardboard and plant your
plants.
In the time the newspaper or cardboard break down completely.
I made agarden bed like this last year and it worked great --
even though I did
not till at all. It was by far the least labor intensive garden
bed I've
ever made. This method may not work for every gardening circumstance
but
it's worth consideration. Do a web search to find out more or
buy the
book for the whole enchilada.
>
>
>
> 2. I have used all sorts of "green manures" such
as lawn clippings and many
> cover crops like alfalfa, winter peas, cow vetch, which have
been grown on
the
> garden. I always dig them into the soil then immediately
plant either seeds
or
> plants. I have never seen any indication that they are 'burning'
my plants or
> doing any harm at all. THe main problem is that some of the
plants may
continue> to grow, but this doesn't bother me or my other,
more desired plants.
>
>
You're right, "green manures"
won't burn plants but depending on the
amount some plant seedlings can be affected -- although they have
to be
pretty sensitive. Some folks think they can just dump piles of
grass
clippings on their garden. But grass clippings piled too densely
can
sour and not break down properly. Your method of digging them
into the
soil takes care of this problem.
Howard Williams
Dallas, Texas