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align=center style='text-align:center'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight: normal'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Proposal (274) to </span></b><a href="http://www.museum.lsu.edu/%7ERemsen/SACCBaseline.html"><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family: Arial;color:blue'>South American Classification Committee</span></b></a><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Recognize sister relationship between Podicipediformes and Phoenicopteriformes<o:p></o:p></span></b></p> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Effect on SACC</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family: Arial;color:black'>: This would move the two orders next to each other in the linear sequence to recognize their sister relationship.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Background and New Information</span></u><span style='font-size: 13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>: The relationships of these two orders to other bird groups have always been controversial -- see synopses in our Notes section under each. Perhaps the single most-surprising result from analyses of DNA sequence data so far has been the association of grebes with flamingoes, first found by van Tuinen (2001) and subsequently also by three independent genetic data sets (Chubb 2004a, Cracraft et al. 2004, Ericson et al. 2006). One analysis of morphological data also supports this relationship, but another (Livezey &amp; Zusi 2007) does not. Recently, DNA sequence data (Johnson et al. 2006) [</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>let me know if you want a pdf</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>] also showed that their ischnoceran lice were sisters. Johnson et al. (2001) also cited a Bob Storer monograph on grebe parasites to the effect that they shared parasites with flamingos.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Analysis and Recommendation</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>: I vote YES because consistency between multiple independent data sets is convincing to me that this relationship is solid and needs to be recognized in our classification.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>References</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family: Arial;color:black'>:</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>CHUBB, A. L. 2004a. New nuclear evidence for the oldest divergence among neognath birds: The phylogenetic utility of ZENK (i). Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 30: 140-151.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>CRACRAFT, J., F. K. BARKER, M. BRAUN, J. HARSHMAN, G. J. DYKE, J. FEINSTEIN, S. STANLEY, A. CIBOIS, P. SCHIKLER, P. BERESFORD, J. GARCÕA-MORENO, M. D. SORENSON, T. YURI, AND D. P. MINDELL. 2004. Phylogenetic relationships among modern birds (Neornithes): toward an avian tree of life. Pp. 468-489 in &quot;Assembling the Tree of Life&quot; (Cracraft, J. and Donoghue, M. J., eds.). Oxford University Press.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>ERICSON, P. G. P., C. L. ANDERSON, T. BRITTON, A. ELZANOWSKI, U. S. JOHANSSON, M. KALLERRSJO, J. I. OHLSON, T. J. PARSONS, D. ZUCCON, AND G. MAYR. 2006. Diversification of Neoaves: integration of molecular sequence data and fossils. Biology Letters 2: 543-547.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>JOHNSON, K. P., M. KENNEDY, AND K. G. McCRACKEN. 2006. Reinterpreting the origins of flamingo lice: cospeciation or host-switching? Biology Letters 2: 275-278.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>LIVEZEY, B. C., AND R. L. ZUSI. 2007. Higher-order phylogeny of modern birds (Theropoda, Aves: Neornithes) based on comparative anatomy. II. Analysis and discussion. Zoological J. Linnean Society 149: 1-95.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>MAYR, G. 2004. Morphological evidence for sister group relationship between flamingos (Aves: Phoenicopteridae) and grebes (Podicipedidae). Zoological J. Linnean Society 140: 157-169.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>VAN TUINEN, M., D. B. BUTVILL, J. A. W. KIRSCH, AND S. B. HEDGES. 2001. Convergence and divergence in the evolution of aquatic birds. Proceedings Royal Society London (Biological Sciences) 268: 1345-1350.</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.25in;text-align:center; text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.25in;text-align:center; text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Van Remsen, May 2007<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.25in;text-align:center; text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>=========================================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Comments from Stiles:</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;&quot;YES. Multiple data sets support this.&nbsp; Place them together in the sequence, I¥d suggest grebes-then-flamingoes as representing the least drastic change (but this is clearly a minor point).&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Comments from Cadena</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>: &quot;YES. The sister relationship between these two clades appears to be strongly supported. Perhaps we could add an additional citation to the proposal or to the notes on the SACC site: Sangster, G. 2005. A name for the flamingo-grebe clade. Ibis 147:612-615. This author presented a review of the evidence, listed synapomorphies for the group, and proposed to name it &quot;Mirandornithes&quot;. Although Sangster's naming of the clade was based on the principles of &quot;phylogenetic taxonomy&quot; (i.e. PhyloCode), he suggested that under the Linnean system, this clade could be ranked at the superorder level (I'm not sure if the SACC will deal with categories like superorders).&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Comments from Robbins</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>: &quot;YES, given the independent data sets that support this change.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Comments from Pacheco</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>: &quot;YES. Diversos <span class=SpellE>estudos</span> <span class=SpellE>independentes</span> <span class=SpellE>d„o</span> um <span class=SpellE>suporte</span> <span class=SpellE>contundente</span> a <span class=SpellE>esta</span> <span class=SpellE>proposiÁ„o</span>. &nbsp;<span class=SpellE>Aproveitando</span> da <span class=SpellE>quest„o</span> <span class=SpellE>colocada</span> <span class=SpellE>por</span> Cadena, È <span class=SpellE>oportuno</span> <span class=SpellE>lembrar</span> que o <span class=SpellE>sufixo</span> de &quot;Mirandornithes&quot; &nbsp;Sangster, 2005 <span class=SpellE>parece</span> <span class=SpellE>sugerir</span> Subclass (<i>vide </i>A.O.U 1999).&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Comments from Nores</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>: &quot;NO. Y no <span class=SpellE>es</span> <span class=SpellE>porque</span> <span class=SpellE>estÈ</span> en total <span class=SpellE>desacuerdo</span> con la <span class=SpellE>propuesta</span>, <span class=SpellE>sino</span> <span class=SpellE>porque</span> <span class=SpellE>veo</span> una <span class=SpellE>marcada</span> <span class=SpellE>tendencia</span> en el &quot;SACC Committee&quot; a <span class=SpellE>considerar</span> <span class=SpellE>todo</span> lo molecular como <span class=SpellE>infalible</span> e irrefutable. <span class=SpellE>DespuÈs</span> de leer el paper de Livezey &amp; Zusi (2007), en particular los <span class=SpellE>·rboles</span> de <span class=SpellE>las</span> Figs. 1-9, y especialmente el <span class=SpellE>estudio</span> molecular de Mindell et al. (1997) (Fig. 4) <span class=SpellE>pienso</span> que la <span class=SpellE>veracidad</span> de los <span class=SpellE>estudios</span> <span class=SpellE>moleculares</span> <span class=SpellE>es</span> <span class=SpellE>relativa</span>. <span class=SpellE>Por</span> <span class=SpellE>ejemplo</span>, Van Tuinen et al. (2000), <span class=SpellE>ponen</span> los Podicipedidae <span class=SpellE>junto</span> con Cuculidae y muy <span class=SpellE>cerca</span> de Charadriidae y en el 2001 (<span class=SpellE>sÛlo</span> un <span class=SpellE>aÒo</span> <span class=SpellE>despuÈs</span>) los <span class=SpellE>ponen</span> <span class=SpellE>junto</span> con Phoenicopteridae y muy <span class=SpellE>lejos</span> de Charadriidae (Fig. 6A,B). Yo <span class=SpellE>pienso</span> que hay que <span class=SpellE>tener</span> en <span class=SpellE>cuenta</span> el paper de Livezey &amp; Zusi antes de <span class=SpellE>seguir</span> con <span class=SpellE>las</span> <span class=SpellE>propuestas</span> y <span class=SpellE>repuestas</span>. A <span class=SpellE>continuaciÛn</span> he <span class=SpellE>puesto</span> <span class=SpellE>algunos</span> <span class=SpellE>p·rrafos</span> que <span class=SpellE>aparecen</span> en Livezey &amp; Zusi que me <span class=SpellE>parecen</span> <span class=SpellE>importantes</span>.&quot;:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black'>&quot;In the published record of phylogenetics, it has become virtually customary simply to generate phylogenetic hypotheses of varying consonance with little or no consideration of factors underlying divergent inferences. This tradition has led to a false sense of congruence among studies, especially among molecular systematists. There was considerable disagreement among recent molecular studies alone (e.g. Espinosa de los Monteros, 2000; Johansson&nbsp;<i>et al.</i>, 2001; Poe &amp; Chubb, 2004), regardless of data <span class=SpellE>analysed</span> (Philippe&nbsp;<i>et al.</i>, 1996; <span class=SpellE>Graur</span> &amp; Li, 2000), which reveals contrasts only between morphological and molecular inferences to be over simplifications of modern study (e.g. Braun &amp; Brumfield, 1998; Van Tuinen, 2002). Studies based both on molecular and morphological phylogenetics (Figs 1-9) manifest substantial disagreement both within and between schools.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">&nbsp; </span>We do not intend an assault on molecular methodology, but seek to refute persistent prejudices that afflict morphological phylogenetics. At present, molecular systematics is characterized both by the coexistence of general (if not unbridled) optimism (Van Tuinen, 2002) and by profound doubts regarding resolution of substantial segments of neornithine phylogeny (Poe &amp; Chubb, 2004). Perhaps the deficiency attributed most widely to morphological phylogenetics stems from suspicions of morphological convergence, concerns seldom empirically substantiated and to which molecular methods are widely assumed to be immune. Without a consensus regarding a relationship between the Podicipedidae and Gaviidae, the former have been the subject of several extraordinary proposals, based on relatively weak evidence or mere speculation. See also Bourdon et. al (2005).&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Comments from Jaramillo</span></u><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:Arial;color:black'>: &quot;YES - Manuel's point is well taken, but it is hard to refute independent molecular data sets, as well as lice data. The two groups are not obviously related to anything else, so form that perspective, anything is possible. The long-held relationship of Gaviidae to Podicipedidae did not make much sense to me, no more than Podicipedidae to any other swimming bird. The two are actually quite different. In terms of courtship, I have no idea if anyone has done any work, but some of the synchronized swims by grebes, and walks by flamingos are actually somewhat similar, including mechanical head turning and following behavior.&quot;</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;mso-outline-level: 1'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p> </div> </body> </html>