Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:21:53 -0400
From: Rrovansek@AOL.COM
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: Re: [HUMNET-L] zone 6 sages and other hummingbird plants

I think if you are willing to mulch carefully you can grow a few good hummer
salvias in zone 6. I would try salvia guaranticia. Cultivars may differ in
hardiness, so it may be necessary to try a couple before you will find a good
one. The 'regular' variety is pretty hardy, as is 'Argentine Skies' which I
have overwintered in the ground in zone 6 (NJ).

Other good choices include salvia greggi - again, the cultivars differ in
hardiness. There are so many cultivars that I won't try to recommend one. Just
check out catalogs and internet nurseries for info.

There are others that might be worth a try. I sent a message a few minutes ago
about zone 7 sages, and these plants could probably be overwintered in zone 6 with lots of mulch.

You can grow some salvias as annuals. S coccinea, s. guarantica, and S.
'Waverly' all have done great for me as annuals both in PA and northern NV.
Everyone should grow S. coccinea because humemrs love it and it is about as
easy as any plant could be. The only problem I have ever had in any climate
with that plant is here in slug-heaven, Huntington Beach, CA, where my
seedlings tend to disappear overnight. I could pick up 5 gallons of snails
around my neighborhood in 1/2 hour, I am sure.

Ron Rovansek
HUntington Beach, CA, USDA zone 10

=====================

Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:28:43 -0400
From: canyon.eagle@VERIZON.NET
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu
Subject: [HUMNET-L] Salvias for zones 7/6/5

Hello Humnet!

I've been enjoying the posts about Salvias in response to Stacy's question
about zone 6 hardy Salvias. I've been playing with hummer plants in our
small yard for about 6 years and have decided to go with the winners. S.
guaranitica survives nicely here in zone 7/6 but please note...1) I plant
it close to the house on the south/southeast side to give it extra
protection/warmth in winter, 2) To prevent root rot, I don't cut it back
at the end of the season, advice I picked up from Bob and Martha Sargents'
talk at the VSO Conference in 5/00, and 3) I use the most "basic" form I
can find, which may be hardier than some other forms. My first plant grew
from a teeny piece obtained from a friend who lives on Capitol Hill in DC. The original plant was growing when she moved there in '95, so it goes
back some years. And if it can survive the hostile environment of Capitol
Hill, it can survive anywhere! ;-) More recent plants I've purchased from
Sunlight Gardens of Andersonville, TN. <www.sunlightgardens.com>

Another Salvia that works here is S. greggii. High Country Gardens has one
in their catalog that they say "may" survive in zone 5, so it might be
worth a try. <www.highcountrygardens.com>

S. coccinea is a super annual here, and even self seeds enough that I don't
have to gather seed.

I have no space to carry over plants or cuttings, so anything I grow has to
make it outside or self-seed.

There were others I tried, but have found that the 3 mentioned above do the
job. I also have good luck with western Agastaches (from High Country Gardens), Coral Honeysuckle aka Lonicera sempervirens (from Sunlight
Gardens), and of course, Cardinal flower, aka Lobelia cardinalis. And
rather than grow a little of this and a little of that, I grow the
humplants that work best and grow big patches of them. I figure that way
the hums can't miss them!

Lori Markoff
Vienna, VA
canyon.eagle@verizon.net

==========================

Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:15:36 -0400
From: Tim Barnard <timothyjb@ATT.NET>
Reply-To: BB for Hummingbirds and Gardening for them in the Southeast
<HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu>
To: HUMNET-L@listserv.lsu.edu

Stacy,

I live about 20 miles north of Detroit in a 6a zone. Last fall I order four
different kinds of Salvia from Plant Delights nursery online. I got one each
of; Salvia guaranitica 'Argentina Skies', listed as zone 6, Salvia guaranitica
'Black and Blue', zone 7, Salvia leucantha (Mexican Bush Sage), zone 7b, and
one that they listed as 'Red Velvet' for the variety but I don't recall the full name. I believe it was a S. Gregii hybrid, which they no longer list in
their catalogue. My intent was to try to get at least some of the plants to
over winter outside, or at least to be able to somehow keep a cutting or
something from them alive until the next spring.

First of all, the S. leuchantha never quite had enough time to flower before it
was killed by frost last fall, and was thought to be a weed by my neighbors.
The remaining three plants did quite well, once I started caging them to
control the tendency for their branches to break. I made cuttings of them all
at the end of the summer, though I tossed out the S. Leucantha cuttings after I
decided they were undesirable. As the cold weather set in and the frost started
to kill most of the branches of the S. guaranitica, I started mulching the
plants which I planted in the ground. I started neglecting the cuttings in
their plastic pots a bit and at times they managed to get frozen solid. After a
long mild fall and mild start of winter I finally brought them inside and stuck
them in the basement for a few days or weeks, I can't remember exactly how
long. The "Argentine Skies" couldn't handle the abuse, but I was able to bring a couple of the Red Velvets and one of the Black and Blues back
from the brink. I brought them upstairs to a window and they slowly picked up
their growth and, after two repottings and some trimming, the Black and Blue is
now about one and a half foot tall and wide, and the Red Velvets are a bit thin
and sprawling out of their pots. In the last month or so I've been making
numerous cuttings from these indoor survivors. I plan to plant them outdoors
during the next week.
Outdoors last fall, I planted the Black and Blue and the Red Velvet on the
south side of my house about a foot from the wall, which is a very light grey
brick. The soil in the bed there is not the greatest, being kind of high in
clay, but somehow it's very well drained. In fact, it's quite difficult to
water it hard enough to make a puddle that lasts for very long at all. Before
planting, I laboriously dug a hole about two or two and a half feet deep, which
is probably too extreme, and enriched the fill with lots of sphagnum peat moss.
I planted the Argentine Skies about twenty feet from the north side of the
house and five feet from an asphalt driveway. As the ground started to freeze,
I began mulching more and more, first with a light layer of grass clippings, then with straw. It never got to thick, maybe a foot and a half before getting
matted down by snow. I also tried to cover the Black and Blue and the Red
Velvet with snow whenever I shoveled the driveway.

Although last winter started out fairly strong, it ended up being one of the
mildest winters in memory. So this could be a best case scenario, although I
think I could always mulch the plants alot more in future over winterings. It
was clear that if any of these outdoor plants would survive, it would be the
Red Velvet because only a few of the branches died after the fall frosts and
most of the leaves stayed green throughout the winter, even the ones just below
the mulch. As the warm weather approached, the Red Velvet starting slowing
growing from where it left off in the fall, mostly from previous live wood, but
also from what appears to be branches that collapsed and took root where they
touched the ground. I thought for a long time that the S. Guaranticas were
dead, and I gave up on them until a couple of weeks ago when I notice they were
starting to sprout from the ground, but not at all from previous wood like the
Red Velvet did. Strangely, the Argentine skies on the north side, far away from the wall, are coming up all around the old plant, whereas
the Black and Blue near the south wall seems to be sprouting from just one
small patch.

Recently I visited a nearby nursery that started selling several half-hardy
salvia varieties, including S. Guaranitica. The lady in charge of them told me
that she successfully over winters hers in her garage, except for this year.
She believes that the unusually mild winter caused them to keep growing in the
dark garage and they couldn't handle it. I forgot to ask her if her garage was
attached to the house or not. I have a detached garage and, betting this coming
winter won't be so mild, I plan to try over wintering some of these in the
garage as well as outside again, but with much more mulch.

Tim B.
Rochester Hills, MI
Zone 6a